Dear WoA

I am forced to post here today, because of your leader. he has every right to be mad EVERY right... please hear me out and hear the other side of the story...

last night the leader of the Rogue Mages clan, an ally of yours was kicked out of the chatbox. my leader came to me last night telling me this, I was not sure what to say, I did not understand what happened. so I was not very happy and so I went to WoA chat box to find out what happened. I asked Lloyd several times why he kicked ody out, he would not reply. I just wanted to know, I was not going to get mad. I still don't know the full truth of what happened.

anyway, that was when things needed to be taken care of I needed to talk with your leader and grim, i wanted to have a civil one on one clan talk about all the wrong that was making its way to my head, I have talked to drew and I have talked to Odysseus about all this. and I know what was going on. I wanted the bad blood between us to go... I wanted all secrets and hatred to just leave. I was tired of the backstabbing that was going on between our clans.

anyway I was questioning grim about how he felt about RM and Odysseus, I had to pull Odysseus back several times for his comments. after grim had his say I made Odysseus say what was on his mind.

I know grim was not too happy about that and today I went to him and apologized, grim is a good man and a good friend. I never personally attacked him I just wanted to bring something to light, not about grim but about RM. It looks liked it failed.

now drew is angry, like I said with all respect he has that right, he has ignored me and denied me the chance to explain myself. the purpose of it was not to fight, it was to figure something out. not about grim but my own clan. grim use to be apart of RM so I wanted to hear from him.

many of you have lost respect of me, I can see why. but if you would just forgive me. I am deeply sorry for what had happened. I take full responsibility for what occurred that night. also every thing that I posted in this forum was not a lie, WoA is the greatest clan I have ever known... Drew is a great leader and he wants whats best. I should have gone to him, its just he was nowhere to be found.

anyway I guess I'll take my leave, I thank you guys for accepting me into your clan. I did have fun. don't change ever ok!

I almost shed a tear reading this.:'( It sucks that lal this happened and being that not many people were there sorta helps it not work out. When something goes on and there is 2 sides of a story then thats when u know your gonna get complete BS. Nothing would be considered solid proof unless people who r truly honest were there and witnessed and understood everything that went on, Im sry to say but the 2 people trying to explain r screwed because no1 will no what really happened. Plus being that 1 person got the Im not trying to sound funny here but Boot, makes it even worse and to me a complete waste of time, do to the fact that not only is this changing the feelings of the people here at WOA but the feelings of the members of RM who r active with woa. Personaly I hate this whole subject but I needed this to be said. ty.

well, 2 start off, many of u wont understand much of this b/c me grim and BA have had many talks about it on our own, so u would have no way of knowing

for a long time now, ive been hearing that odysseus, the leader of RM hates WOA and feels that RM is superior. He thinks that since we have a chatbox, we are a lesser clan (stupid right? i know. especially when they play NO games at RM at all, its just posting.....AND all they do is post, no games no chatting, and STILL we post more!! lol! but we are a \"lesser clan\")
well, for sum reason i just brushed it off and continued the alliance, mostly cuz BA was such a good friend 2 WOA. so i decided we could proceed with the alliance and that i didnt care what their closed minded leader thinks about WOA. i didnt say anything and just carried on as if i never knew. still kept it friendly and still tried 2 help out the struggling cnan RM any way i could...mostly through coaching BA and telling him what needed 2 b changed. then my words went through him. he would post At RM about the things that i told him needed 2 b done and things started changing 4 the better at RM. the ideas had 2 come from him cuz the leader there, ody, has no respect for any1 not in his clan so he wouldnt have taken the ideas from me...kinda like hitler. he would just look at it as critisism from a lesser clan and brush the idea off

Really the problem is that RM is a dying clan, but their leader doesent see it and thinks they are just fine(even tho all they do is have 40-50 posts a day, and dont play ANY games 2gether cuz they have no chat)
so BA has come 2 me many times with issues with his leader ody, and asked me my opinion. grim and i both tried our best 2 help BA out and give him good advice 2 help make RM better and get around their leader odys stubborn, closed minded ways. Ive been told many times straight from the members and admin at RM that it is dying and there is no activity at all

i always tried my best 2 help BA in his struggles with RM, and we became close friends through the process.

well i started hearing that not only does he have NO respect 4 WOA, but odysseus the leader of RM always calls me an idiot behind my back. i heard this from MoC, an admin at RM, and straight from best alchemist himself.

well this made me kind of upset, because i have spent a lot of time helping that clan, and trying 2 develop a fun, friendly alliance with them. For their leader 2 openly disrespect me behind my back all the time, and say he has no respect 4 WOA is unacceptable.how can we possibly have an alliance if they feel that way? i dont like people who are fake and talk about ppl bahind their backs, then put on the friendly mask 2 ur face. what is his motive in being our ally if he hates us?

But BA was my good friend, and he convinced me 2 not take off RM\'s link under our allies tab, and to not say anything 2 odysseus even tho i was dying to. He said he was going 2 continue 2 push 4 odysseus 2 change RM and he needed my, and WOA\'s help.

well then, last night, after all that ive done 2 help him and even tho we were close friends, best alchemist came here last night with the leader of RM and began 2 attack grim. they teamed up on him and BA used all the knowledge against us that he has gained from being fake friends with me and grim. he used al the convos weve had as ammunition 2 attack our members. a stab in the back. thats just pure betrayal.

here is the PM i got from grim this morning:

Grimblade wrote:Well, you may have been there or not, but last night we had quite an issue with RM, so I\'ll give you a basic rundown of what happened.

To start things off, Ody came to the chatbox complaining about Lloyd not showing up for his tourney match. Lloyd, as you know, is always afk, and Ody continuted to try to get Lloyd\'s attention, so Lloyd came back and kicked him. Apparently this pissed Ody off, so he called BA over, and they both started questioning Lloyd, basically an attack. Lloyd left at his usual time, and they called him a coward, and I defended him, but they quickly changed the subject of their attacks to ME.

They had the screenshot of the time I mentioned earlier when I said \"I don\'t really like RM\", and of course they made a big fuss about it, saying I\'ve \"besmirched RM\'s name\" and s*** like that. They basically pelted me with accusing questions, and I gave vague answers to get more information from them than they would get from me. They mainly asked questions about my thoughts about RM, my thoughts of Ody(which BA brought into question, already knowing what we thought), and my thoughts on the alliance. However, they were more of accusations than questions.

BA was acting like a miniature Ody the WHOLE time. ALL of his friendliness we usually see was gone. He\'s also been feeding Ody everything we\'ve talked to him about, and they both completely deny us helping RM. Also, they say that we\'ve gotten all of our ideas from THEM, which I told them was BS, but they still didn\'t listen. I lost a lot of respect and trust in BA from that. I don\'t know if BA was sucking up to Ody or is actually changed like that, but being so cruel to a clan that\'s helped him so much is just inexcuseable. At one point in the argument(which went on for 2 hours), BA said \"I still want us to be friends, but clan politics go before friendship\", and I responded with \"Like I could trust you anymore, and you should always put your friends before clan politics.\", and of course, him and Ody argued otherwise.

Also, I found it extremely dirty that they did this at OUR chatbox. That limited me from being too harsh in front of everyone, but it also put me in a position where I couldn\'t not answer the questions, and couldn\'t ban them.

One thing Ody said that really pissed me off is \"We are the best clan out there.\", and I responded with the fact that there is always another step up, and that a clan can\'t call themselves the best if they can\'t listen to their own members. And on the topic of Gus, apparently Ody doesn\'t believe in banning anyone, no matter what they do. He brought up the \"Freedom of speech\" crap on that part, which I replied \"We can say whatever we want, but there is always consequence\".

The last tie that kept us allied with RM, which was BA, is now broken. I think we should terminate the alliance, because I don\'t want to have anything to do with those a**-holes anymore. It even came up in the conversation, where BA used the alliance and the term \"bad blood\" as a reason to ask another question, I responded \"I could care less about allying with you. We\'ve gotten nothing but deception and petty arguments from you.\", and of course Ody translated that into \"We\'ve sucked you dry of ideas and don\'t need you anymore\", which I said was BS.

I don\'t care about BA, he had his chance, was my friend, and blew it. He blew ALL of our trust. RM has gone too far this time around, and action needs to be taken.

after gaining our trust just 2 use it in an attack against us, how can we truly ever trust BA again??????????/

honestly i mean............we accept the apology and remain friends with him and then what, he collects our words for 2 more months and then uses it against us again?


im sorry but after all the hours ive spent helping RM and BA personally...i feel so used and betrayed it disgusts me

THis Topic depresses me and makes me angry hearing this. I only wish i was there to c it so that i could be more sure of myself.

frost, look, who u gunna trust, Grim or BA dude??

how do we know BA hasnt been here gaining our trust all along just 2 throw it in our faces. im sorry but i wont b fooled again. i trust grims word over BA's since u can see their 2 stories conflict....i choose 2 believe grim

btw

best_Alchemist wrote: last night the leader of the Rogue Mages clan, an ally of yours was kicked out of the chatbox. my leader came to me last night telling me this, I was not sure what to say, I did not understand what happened. so I was not very happy and so I went to WoA chat box to find out what happened.

lloyd has every right 2 tell ur leader he doesent wanna play brawl, if he dont wanna play he doesent have 2 -_- ody started harassing him about it so he got the boot. simple as that. no1 is excluded from rules. he started causing trouble and he got the boot. leader or not, thats the way we do it here.like it or not, behave or ur gone

best_Alchemist wrote:I wanted the bad blood between us to go... I wanted all secrets and hatred to just leave. I was tired of the backstabbing that was going on between our clans.

the bad blood and backstabbing has only been done 2 us. the whole situation is only a result of ody disrespecting me, and my clan. RM has recieved no backstabbing from us. only given it.
anything me and grim have ever told u about our feelings of ody has been worded in a respectful way. we never did, or would b that tacky and disrespectful. Weve done nothing but try 2 help a dying clan, and this is our repayment

best_Alchemist wrote:anyway I was questioning grim about how he felt about RM and Odysseus, I had to pull Odysseus back several times for his comments. after grim had his say I made Odysseus say what was on his mind.

1) u questioned grim about his feelings towards od right in front of him...i doubt grim was fully truthful .......u put him on the spot in front of ody.....grim is a peaceful person so i doubt he said what he wanted 2. especially cuz like he said, u did it here so he had 2 b responsible and not make himself look bad as a mod 2 other ppl watching who dont know whats going on

2) i find it kind of odd that u asked grim his feelings towards odysseus, in front of him, WHEN U ALREADY KNEW! -_- thats fked up man and u know it

3) o u pulled od back? thats not what i heard...i heard u were right in with him attacking -_- im sorry i trust grim more than u

best_Alchemist wrote:now drew is angry, like I said with all respect he has that right, he has ignored me and denied me the chance to explain myself.

no matter what u say, how can i ever really trust u again? for all i know, ur just here spying around, acting like a friend, all the while looking for more stuff 2 use against us, and if we trust u again...ull just do it 2 us again.
the fact that i trusted u SO much, and looked at u as so close a friend made this even worse. u were IN man. i totally trusted u, and u betrayed me. that is unreoairable and it will never b the same again

best_Alchemist wrote:many of you have lost respect of me, I can see why. but if you would just forgive me. I am deeply sorry for what had happened.

sry, not gunna happen man.....like i said, ill always have 2 worry about sum1 i trust stabbing me in the back again. id rather not have 2 worry about that

I kicked ody for multiple accounts of harassing, flaming, and annoying me like hell. You have no idea how arrogent he is. Take sadam hussain, add barak obama and thats ody. If he does it again he will be banned forever.

As for you ba, you are becoming ody's Female dog, doing everything he says. In my eyes thats jsut weak. Srsly get your own mind or at least your own life

cclloyd9785 wrote:I kicked ody for multiple accounts of harassing, flaming, and annoying me like hell. You have no idea how arrogent he is. Take sadam hussain, add barak obama and thats ody. If he does it again he will be banned forever.

As for you ba, you are becoming ody's Female dog, doing everything he says. In my eyes thats jsut weak. Srsly get your own mind or at least your own life

lloyd, i been dealing with this guy for months! i DO kno how arrogant he is man, trust me......he is SO conceited and thinks him and his clan are better than every1. and it shows clear as day. he rules his clan like a dictator, with an iron fist. but he does it very sneaky so that it doesent seem that way. im not stupid tho and i see right thru him. he is an arrogant dictator and he fulfills the need 2 control ppl thru the internet

as far as u banning him, dude go ahead if he does it again. he deserves it

and what u said about BA.....AGREED! he sticks up for all the stuff that ody does even tho ha ADMITS ody is wrong. he justifys it and comes up with reasons...always defending odys wrongdoings.

then whenever ody comes around....BA is right at his side agreeing with every word ody says, defending him and his viewpoints (the same ones BA told me himself he disagrees with) how fake is that?!?!?

Well, I don't have much to say. Everything I need to say is in the chatbox's history and my PM to Drew, which he has quoted in his above post.

see drew gets me, how ba changed, and how ody is jsut becoming hitler cept not a meth addict.

cclloyd9785 wrote:see drew gets me, how ba changed, and how ody is jsut becoming hitler cept not a meth addict.

I know very well about Ody and BA. I'm FROM RM, I've been in that trap already and know what it's like. I never really noticed until I came here, though.

so it was like hell nao that u think about it?

cclloyd9785 wrote:so it was like hell nao that u think about it?

Not like hell, just very dark...like a hypnotic veil in front of your eyes.

yes its sort of like how Japan is. They think theyre superior and they lie 2 their people, and trap them, hiding them away from the rest of the world in a web of deciet. and it is also dictated and the ppl have no say in anything.

All while carrying the extreme belief thet their people....and way of life are superior 2 the rest of the world, and looking down on any1 who is not one of them (even tho that its ironic that they look down on ppl, when they are the ones who should b looked down upon)

but yea that pretty much sums up odysseus, and RM too. They are a mirror image of japan

giDr€w wrote:yes its sort of like how Japan is. They think theyre superior and they lie 2 their people, and trap them, hiding them away from the rest of the world in a web of deciet. and it is also dictated and the ppl have no say in anything.

All while carrying the extreme belief thet their people....and way of life are superior 2 the rest of the world, and looking down on any1 who is not one of them (even tho that its ironic that they look down on ppl, when they are the ones who should b looked down upon)

but yea that pretty much sums up odysseus, and RM too. They are a mirror image of japan

Exactly. Then they do something like retarted like bombing Pearl Harbor(In this case, attacking us) and end up getting pwned.

nice grim!

wow grim thats pwnage

I see the thread has been made public. Let's see what happens.

I've gotta see this alleged chat history before I can take an official stand on the matter. For now, my job is to calm everyone in both clans down until the chat history is made available, and I can see for sure who I get to yell at.

So....Whats happening with RM as our allies?

they r not our allies anymore. neither is GUIC

cclloyd9785 wrote:they r not our allies anymore. neither is GUIC

And also, GUiC did nothing, we just don't want to be linked to RM. Just clearing that up.

And Lloyd, can you access the chat history that far back and give us some screenshots or something?

Okay.
The way I see it is BA was trying to be the middle man and it turned out horribly.
I don't think he meant any harm when asking grim those questions.

1) u questioned grim about his feelings towards od right in front of him...i doubt grim was fully truthful .......u put him on the spot in front of ody.....grim is a peaceful person so i doubt he said what he wanted 2. especially cuz like he said, u did it here so he had 2 b responsible and not make himself look bad as a mod 2 other ppl watching who dont know whats going on

2) i find it kind of odd that u asked grim his feelings towards odysseus, in front of him, WHEN U ALREADY KNEW! -_- thats fked up man and u know it

To me, this situation would've been fine in a private setting.
It might have just been bad judgment to bring it in a public place, but that is not a reason to hate somebody in my opinion.

If you really want to hear what I say, here it is:
Everything that was said about Ody was behind his back.
I saw, on multiple accounts, people talking about him without him knowing. If WOA had a problem with how RM functioned, and vice versa, it SHOULD have been an issue that was sorted FACE TO FACE. And as far as I can tell, that's what BA was going for, but perhaps in a poor approach.
The fact of the matter is that there was bad blood in both directions, but either side only wants to see the other.
You can go ahead and sever all ties, but that won't solve anything.
Because there's nothing quite like an alliance ruined.
And I would very much like to see the conversation that took place.
As a member of this clan, I feel the need to know, in a neutral setting, what happened to cause the separation of the alliance. All I'm seeing here is "They backstabbed us,"
But I'm also getting very different vibes from everybody, and from BA I'm definitely getting remorse, and I honestly can't be sure if he deserves to feel hated. Everybody makes mistakes. The most innocent situation can be taken as hostile.

Anyway, everybody just try to be calm and reasonable about this.
I know it's easy for me to say because none of this is aimed at me, but I think that a calm conversation is in order for a great number of people.

grim i can only go 100 messages back. drew should be able to go 3 days back...but it wasnt showing up

Faustus wrote:Okay.
The way I see it is BA was trying to be the middle man and it turned out horribly.
I don't think he meant any harm when asking grim those questions.

1) u questioned grim about his feelings towards od right in front of him...i doubt grim was fully truthful .......u put him on the spot in front of ody.....grim is a peaceful person so i doubt he said what he wanted 2. especially cuz like he said, u did it here so he had 2 b responsible and not make himself look bad as a mod 2 other ppl watching who dont know whats going on

2) i find it kind of odd that u asked grim his feelings towards odysseus, in front of him, WHEN U ALREADY KNEW! -_- thats fked up man and u know it

To me, this situation would've been fine in a private setting.
It might have just been bad judgment to bring it in a public place, but that is not a reason to hate somebody in my opinion.

If you really want to hear what I say, here it is:
Everything that was said about Ody was behind his back.
I saw, on multiple accounts, people talking about him without him knowing. If WOA had a problem with how RM functioned, and vice versa, it SHOULD have been an issue that was sorted FACE TO FACE. And as far as I can tell, that's what BA was going for, but perhaps in a poor approach.
The fact of the matter is that there was bad blood in both directions, but either side only wants to see the other.
You can go ahead and sever all ties, but that won't solve anything.
Because there's nothing quite like an alliance ruined.
And I would very much like to see the conversation that took place.
As a member of this clan, I feel the need to know, in a neutral setting, what happened to cause the separation of the alliance. All I'm seeing here is "They backstabbed us,"
But I'm also getting very different vibes from everybody, and from BA I'm definitely getting remorse, and I honestly can't be sure if he deserves to feel hated. Everybody makes mistakes. The most innocent situation can be taken as hostile.

Anyway, everybody just try to be calm and reasonable about this.
I know it's easy for me to say because none of this is aimed at me, but I think that a calm conversation is in order for a great number of people.

faustus, that is an ammazing summation of exactly what went on, ESPECIALLY having made it based soley on the knowledge uve gained from this thread. i talked with BA and that is exactly what he was trying 2 do.........just none of us knew it until a day later, after this thread was made and discussed.

it was basically a poorly executed plan 2 bring the 2 clans 2 a middle ground, just that BA never told any1 what he was trying 2 do. Then as a result, mass confusion broke out.

BA's questions toward grim came off as an attack, especially with ody right behind him insulting WOA. and so, it seemed as if we had been betrayed. But we now know other wise. BA had nothing but good intentions and we know that now

again, u truly are a wise person faustus for being able 2 read between the lines so well, and i commend u for that ability

giDr€w wrote:

Faustus wrote:Okay.
The way I see it is BA was trying to be the middle man and it turned out horribly.
I don't think he meant any harm when asking grim those questions.

1) u questioned grim about his feelings towards od right in front of him...i doubt grim was fully truthful .......u put him on the spot in front of ody.....grim is a peaceful person so i doubt he said what he wanted 2. especially cuz like he said, u did it here so he had 2 b responsible and not make himself look bad as a mod 2 other ppl watching who dont know whats going on

2) i find it kind of odd that u asked grim his feelings towards odysseus, in front of him, WHEN U ALREADY KNEW! -_- thats fked up man and u know it

To me, this situation would've been fine in a private setting.
It might have just been bad judgment to bring it in a public place, but that is not a reason to hate somebody in my opinion.

If you really want to hear what I say, here it is:
Everything that was said about Ody was behind his back.
I saw, on multiple accounts, people talking about him without him knowing. If WOA had a problem with how RM functioned, and vice versa, it SHOULD have been an issue that was sorted FACE TO FACE. And as far as I can tell, that's what BA was going for, but perhaps in a poor approach.
The fact of the matter is that there was bad blood in both directions, but either side only wants to see the other.
You can go ahead and sever all ties, but that won't solve anything.
Because there's nothing quite like an alliance ruined.
And I would very much like to see the conversation that took place.
As a member of this clan, I feel the need to know, in a neutral setting, what happened to cause the separation of the alliance. All I'm seeing here is "They backstabbed us,"
But I'm also getting very different vibes from everybody, and from BA I'm definitely getting remorse, and I honestly can't be sure if he deserves to feel hated. Everybody makes mistakes. The most innocent situation can be taken as hostile.

Anyway, everybody just try to be calm and reasonable about this.
I know it's easy for me to say because none of this is aimed at me, but I think that a calm conversation is in order for a great number of people.

faustus, that is an ammazing summation of exactly what went on, ESPECIALLY having made it based soley on the knowledge uve gained from this thread. i talked with BA and that is exactly what he was trying 2 do.........just none of us knew it until a day later, after this thread was made and discussed.

it was basically a poorly executed plan 2 bring the 2 clans 2 a middle ground, just that BA never told any1 what he was trying 2 do. Then as a result, mass confusion broke out.

BA's questions toward grim came off as an attack, especially with ody right behind him insulting WOA. and so, it seemed as if we had been betrayed. But we now know other wise. BA had nothing but good intentions and we know that now

again, u truly are a wise person faustus for being able 2 read between the lines so well, and i commend u for that ability

Wow, Faust. Yet another reminder of why I always call you "Faust the Wise", lol.

Yeah, he told me about his true intentions AFTER I sent that PM to Drew, and having been in the center of the mass confusion along with BA, I was too stunned to say much here. I was VERY confused at that point, but now everything is much clearer to me.